Derek asked:
About Kugel's three kinds of synagogues: I was thinking that Messianic congregations haven't been around long enough to become effective Ceremonial Halls drawing people through lifecycle events or to be Nostalgia Centers (give us a few more decades, though) and we'd have to grow way up to become Davvening Clubs. I know none of these were ideal, but I don't even think we measure up to them. My question: as I become more and more Jewish, how do I bring along my people: Jews who don't do Jew-things and Gentiles who don't have Jewish memories?
You have asked a number of questions here, Derek. First of all is the entire question of whether you should “bring along . . .Gentiles who don’t have Jewish memories.” In my context, I have to constantly struggle with this because we are dealing with the sancta of a particular people group, the Jews, whom God called to be a Kingdom of Priests and a holy nation. I am very leery of Gentiles who think they can play with such things simply because they want to or feel that, because they are the seed of Abraham by faith, they have a right to.
I am just now introducing an Adult Bar/Bat Mitzvah class in my synagogue (a two year curriculum!), and I have a number of Gentiles who would like to attend. Right at the get go, I have told them that there will NOT be a Bar/Bat Mitzvah ceremony waiting for them at the end of this particular two year rainbow. I have had to make it clear to them that the reason for this is that the mantle of mitzvot such as the Bar/Bat Mitzvah takes upon him/her self is NOT the legacy of Gentiles, but only of the seed of Jacob. So for these Gentiles, taking my two year Adult Bar Mitzvah curriculum, this course amounts to an Introduction to Judaism. I have had to make this clear, and will need to re-emphasize it from time to time because people have such a talent for hearing what they want to hear and believing what they want to believe.
Now there are two Gentiles in this class who are bonafide candidates for conversion to Messianic Judaism. One has been living a Jewish life for about 20 years, shabbat observant, kosher eating, and regularly integrated with the wider Jewish community. The other party, a woman, is definitely and respectfully drawn to the fullness of Jewish life without any hint of feeling it would be the elite thing to do, or that she regrets having been born a Gentile, both of which are too commonly encountered in our movement. People who are genuine candidates for full-blown conversion are a different case, and one must be VERY careful and conservative in discerning who those people might be. It calls for a seriousness, a respectfulness, a patience in asking and waiting to assume the mantle of Jewish covenant life not out of a sense of entitlement, but out of a sense of the privilege of it all, one’s own unworthiness, and a history of having already demonstrated a sacrificial drawing to this people and their way of life.
One certainly has in one's congregation people who are certainly in process. Gentiles should be treated with great courtesy, while at the same time, as leaders, we ought not to ignore or blur proper boundaries and distinctions. This is especially necessary in our ranks because many people bring to the table a sense of entitlement, sometimes naively so, and sometimes belligerently so. Therefore, for their sake, and for the sake of the truth, we must be clear on boundaries. For example, I do not allow Gentiles to be called up to the Torah in my congregation since the entire liturgy and tradition, as well as the Bible, emphasizes that this is especially the legacy of the seed of Jacob. The same with the Haftarah. I call Gentiles up to read the B'rith Chadasha. Gentiles are by no means second class citizens: but neither are they Jews. And one must be persistent and very careful in making these distinctions--people can take offense very easily, and some people will use such issues to manipulate or unseat leaders, seeking to foment a palace rebellion due to their own preferred vision of reality.
Therefore, one must be clear in one's own mind, and be diligent in entirely winning over one's Board and one's opinion leaders. Otherwise, I can pretty much guarantee sparks will fly over this issue--unfair, mean-spirited, oversensitive, manipulative, and accusatory sparks.
As to how one brings one’s people along in the pathways of observance, to my mind this involves at least the following:
(1) Modeling these commitments oneself.
(2) Before fielding or advocating for changes in the congregation’s life, privately identifying and winning over opnion leaders and leaders to your perspective and cause. Only as these people are won over is it safe to spring the matter on the congregation.
(3) Patiently teaching the biblical allowability and even authority of such things.
(4) Identifying the worldview assumptions within your people that send off alarm bells over such matters, teaching to these assumptions, working with people privately to bring along those who are resistant.
(5) Instituting and /or exposing your people to workshops designed to make the skill set of observant Judaism user-friendly for them.
(6) Patience, patience, and above all, patience.
Derek said --- I can picture Atlanta synagogues that are Ceremonial Halls and Nostalgia Centers, but where would I look to find a Davvening Club? Is this prevalent in contemporary Orthodoxy?
A davvening club is in large, but not full, measure generational. Look for a group of older people who pray together regularly. I found something of this sort at the local Chabad congregation, where, on week-days, there are men who gather at least every Monday, Thursday and Shabbat to pray together—they have a camaraderie that comes from familiarity with each other and with the liturgy. This is not uncommon in Orthodox circles where there are minyanim that meet week in, week out, daily, for many years. My synagogue, located in an area of long-time orthodox Jewish settlement, has a dozen congregations where this goes on every day, every week.
3. In your cube, I am curious about the difference between G'milut Hasidim and Mitzvot. Obviously G'milut Hasidim are often the same as Mitzvot (many commandments command us to help enemies, the poor, etc.). Why keep them as two separate categories? Is it to differentiate charitable acts from merely obedient ones?
G’milut Hasadim is more a mentality and a watchword—the imperative to be engaged in acts of social benefit and generosity. Mitzvot is a wider category applying to recognizing the entirety of Jewish life to be life under commandment.
Nathaniel asked,
This is based off of part 1 of Rabbi Stuarts Paper, and to start I want to just verbalize some thoughts I have on Zikkaron. R. Stuart, you talked about Zikkaron, remembrance, as being something that is helpful in pointing us towards what God has done. So by doing the very act of remembering (the very act of celebrating Pesach for example), we are doing something, we are responding to God and fellowshiping with Him. Yet we also are provoked to take further steps towards God as we do the very things that He commands us to remember. Taking Pesach again, as we obey and celebrate the feast, that in and of itself brings us near to God, but it also makes us think more about God’s mighty work on behalf of his people, thus driving us closer to Him.
So here is my question. Many people know God without celebrating any feasts, without any traditions, they know God simply because they heard the good news about the kingdom and accepted. And based on this, they can approach God. So this is officially the questions, “If Yeshua is the basis for our walk with the Lord, should we consider our remembrances, the Zikkaron, as something that builds on that foundation?
Nathaniel, you are comparing apples and oranges here. We do not keep the memorials because it enhances our intimacy with/relationship with God: we do so because we have been commanded to do so and because it is right, regardless of how we feel, what warm fuzzies result, and whether God responds to the act. Think of it like sending birthday cards and anniversary cards to your parents, spouse, or children. One does this because it is right. The significant others may reciprocate, it may be an occasion for deepening or sweetening the relationship, but that is besides the point. One does this because it is proper, not because of what one gets out of it.
Therefore, even if one feels that one’s relationship with one’s parents, spouse, children is top of the world, one should send the cards/give the presents anyway out of proper regard, and because it is the right thing to do, not because one anticipates additional benefit.
As for Zikkaron building on the foundation of Yeshua, I don’t find it helpful to think in this manner. Again, we are comparing apples and oranges. One honors God in remembrance of his past mercies—this is zikkaron. One also believes that Yeshua is the foundation for what God is doing in saving the world, Jew and Gentile, male and female, Israel and the nations. But again, one celbrates the zikkronot because they point to God’s acts in our history—this should be enough! We should not have to authenticate them further by pointing out their connection to Yeshua. These events are authentic enough—these are the saving acts of the Living God. That we can relate them to Yeshua is nice, but not crucial to their significance.
9 comments:
I would like to turn to an issue that R. Dauermann's response draws out. If this has been addressed, I am unaware of any formal treatment of it. We, as a movement, need to address the status of Gentiles who have been walking with us for some time, who are wholly identified with this movement and yet are not Jewish. What is more, our very discussions to date tacitly support the contention that not everyone who believes in Yeshua should be Jewish. With that, this is a very real issue. We are now in a place where the Gentiles who came in as youngsters and teenagers are now having their own kids and are, in turn, raising their children in our movement. What do they say in response to the question, "What is your religion?" Can they say Judaism? They would not say that they are Jews. Would they say Christian? That response seems to miss the mark of a fair answer. So what do we do? If we do not provide some answer for them, we run the very real risk of alienating them. What is more, if we do not grapple with it, what are we really saying to them?
If this issue is too far off topic, I apologize.
Robert
In response to Paul's question:
Paul, I believe your point is very valid and is very worthy of an answer. Although I see this as a real in depth question that this class cannot really properly evaluate due to the various opinions in the movement. When it comes to this specific issue you come to several other issues such as: MJ conversion, the place of a gentile entering into the practices of a Jew(tefillen, tzizit, kashrut…do they even do these things?) There is always the big question, “Who is a Jew?” If you go by rabbinic tradition (legitimacy thru the mother) then we probably have less than 5 % Jewish leaders in our movement (that is a guestimation not fact).
I encourage gentiles in our midst to call themselves Messianic Believers and of course the Jews = Messianic Jews. I see a healthy truth here with a healthy distinguisment where one does not usurp from the other. Being that Messianic Judaism is largely a Jew/Gentile combo, there should be a clear distinguishing factor without alienating anyone. I believe gentiles who have a primary Jewish calling should be allowed to walk out life as a Jew without necessarily calling himself a Jew. Also, the dedicated Gentiles in our community = those who have been called by the Ruach(a Ruth calling)have an exceptional life call to the Jewish people and should therefore take upon himself a Jewish life.
The naming part is the easy part in my opinion, the interesting predicament to this whole issue is our current state within the movement in constituting what makes a Messianic Jew Jewish. Here we are grappling on what validates a MJ halakhah, I can’t even imagine (at this point) grappling with what makes a Messianic Gentile Jewish.
Hello everyone:
2 posts for now.
This first post is in response to the broad theme of Liturgical Prayer.
I enjoy liturgical prayer. Not only do I enjoy it, but at times, liturgy does a much better job of expressing my feelings towards the Lord than anything I could come up with on my own. I love the Psalms of David, and appreciate the process that the Siddur takes us through, even though I am not well educated in it.
I would like to have an objective look at how the Siddur goes with Yeshua’s teaching on prayer. He pretty much said when you pray, pray like this…and everyone here know the Lord’s prayer. Yeshua lays out a straightforward directive:
1. Praising God (Holy is your Name)
2. Advance the Kingdom (Your Kingdom come)
3. Obedience to His Commandments (Your will be done)
4. Requests and Petitions (Give us this day our daily bread)
5. Repentance and Forgiveness (Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who have sinned against us)
6. Requests for a Holy Walk (lead us not into temptation)
7. Praise (for Yours is the Kingdom and the power and the glory)
What I see with the Siddur and the Lord’s prayer is a pattern for communicating with God. What I also am learning as I spend time with God, is that prayer is a number of things:
1. It’s a time to tell God what we think/feel
2. It’s a time for God to respond
3. It’s a time to offer praise and thanksgiving
4. It’s a time to repent
5. It’s a time to really communicate with God, to have a conversation
This is not a complete list, but as I am thinking about Liturgy and the Siddur, I want to know what I am getting into when I pray, why I am able to pray, and what king of response can expect from the King of the Universe. I feel that Yeshua gives us further insight into what communicating with God is all about, Him first, but us also.
My 2nd post talks about Gentiles in the Movement:
Dan Juster wrote an excellent article touching upon this issue. He went over it in detail at last years Tikkun North East Regional. What I thought was very appropriate was his primary comments were aimed to let people know that for whatever reason a Gentile believer joined to a Messianic Congregation, he/she needed to be treated with love, and that extreme care needed to be given to them and this situation.
Messianic Judaism is not for everyone. I have had talks with some people that feel all gentiles have the responsibility to follow all the commandments, and to live as Jews. I do not agree with this, and when people ask me about the Gentile believers in my congregation I explain it like this, “Ruth was not a Jewish person, but she was called to live like a Jew, with the Jews. She said ‘Your people will be my people, and your God will be my God.’” I strongly believe that we have people in our midst with that calling. Now I don’t recall if anyone ever asked Ruth if she was Jewish. She was simply someone who lived amongst the people. God also favored her obedience so much that he used her to bring forth the Messiah.
As we grow as a movement, I do see that there will be distinguishing between those born Jewish and those not. This is not a bad thing, because it will help clear up some confusion about who we are as a movement and what we are trying to accomplish. But we really need the wisdom of God to make sure both Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles see the wonder of their calling, and to know the healthy expression thereof.
Perhaps having some prominent Messianic Gentiles in the movement teach on their irrevocable calling as it fits alongside the calling of Messianic Jews would be good.
Paul:
I am by birth a Gentile going through a conversion process. I already consider myself to be part of the people Israel. There are biblical precedents for conversion and not just by marriage (Caleb, Nicolaus in Acts 6, whole groups such as the Gibeonites, etc.). I teach my children that they are Jews.
I do not encourage the Gentiles in my congregation to convert. I don't know of any who plan to convert at this time. I encourage them to be like Cornelius, God-fearing supporters of Israel and participants in the customs of Israel (at least when we are together).
I tell the Gentile spouses married to Jews that they must live a Jewish life and raise their children as Jews. I tell them, "If you like babyback ribs so much, you should have thought of that before you married a Jew and had Jewish children."
To me it is a healthy mix -- Jews, Converts, and God-fearers worshiping together. I know that God-fearers in the synagogue is not normative in Judaism anymore. But I think this is one way we can be on the eschatological cutting edge more so than other forms of Judaism. We are already bringing along some Gentiles who accept Israel's role in God's plan and who are ready to live it with them.
Derek
Paul and Robert, I find your questions and comments about Gentiles in Messianic Jewish congregations as well as all other discussion very apropos. Although I am not attending a Messianic Congregation regularly at present, my family and I did so for several years. I agree that there are gentiles with a primary Jewish calling, gentiles who have a profound love for Israel, gentiles whose children have grown up in the context of a Messianic Jewish congregation and the question of semantics of what are they to be called. I don't know what the right answers to these questions or areas are. I do personally understand the pull of Judaica. However, somehow, Gentile believers in Messianic Jewish congregations should probably be looked at as G-d Fearers were 2000 years ago. I don't see the need for Gentiles to become Jewish and yet I do personally recognize that everything which the world of Christianity has adopted aside from their removing of everything Jewish out of their midst, is Jewish in its roots. Edith Schaeffer wrote a book, "Christianity is Jewish". I would agree because it is rooted in Israel. Somehow, gentile believers should be given the freedom to embrace whatever is Jewish, worship in a Jewish fashion if it honors G-d, without becoming Jews vis a vis a conversion process formerly. How do we interpret it when Paul writes that it is circumcision of the heart that signifies a true Jew and we have Moshe admonishing Klal Israel to cirmcumcise your hearts. I don't know if we will ever sort all this out without running the risk of getting legalistic about it. It does become a reality issue of who you are, then as Paul says come as you are and a heart issue. We do know that prior to Yeshua, the only way for a Gentile was formal conversion to Judaism. After Yeshua, with the Holy Spirit falling on the Gentiles, inclusion was now made available to Gentiles into and through the commonwealth of Israel without formal conversion. Yet it seems G-d fearing Gentiles were always allowed in the synogogues. So how do we formulate halakhah? Is it just for Messianic Jewish believers only? Do we have a halkhah or way of dealing with Gentile believers in stipulating what they are going to be allowed in the context of a Messianic Jewish congregations and anything pertaining to Judaism. I mean, these are not only interesting but important questions and no doubt there not only is but will continue to be controversy and pride will get stirred up and humanistic sinful reaction will result with subsequent anger. So how do we create unity out of all this. True worship and praise of the G-d of Israel through the mediation of Yeshua with the help of the Ruach is stil the central thing and do we have humble and contrite spirits with circumcised hearts before the L-rd? All this is and does become overwhelming but thanks be to G-d he will provide clarity through our leadership to which, we will have to submit if it is Scipturally based. I guess it's still down to Oral Torah and reinterpretations being made depending on the culturally relevant context of our times as well as what the Bible says.
In response to R. Dauermann's reply,and Paul's ,Nathaniel's,Robert's and Cornelius's replies also!
I hope I won't offend anyone by what I reply forthwith,it certainly is not my intention...just being honest so we can share and move forward!
When David Stern wrenched the "Messianic Movement" out from the Hebrew-Christian movement he did it to
1.create a place where JEWISH people could come together in the worship of Yeshua,with fellow JEWS..a sort of JEWISH space.
Has this been fulfilled? I think not.In no way could we call the Messianic synagogues where 95% of the congregation are non-Jewish in any way JEWISH SPACE.It's simply blinding ourselves to something that isn't the reality.It might feel jewish,have all the right sounds,be in Hebrew,etc but sooner or later the Jewish people will find out that the people there aren't Jewish by birth,yet are calling themselves Jews..How can any traditional Jewish person take us seriously!!
2.The aim of the Messianic movement was to bridge the gulf between JEWS who believed in Yeshua and those who did not.Not gentiles and jews but JEWS AND JEWS.It would seem to me we are addressing many other issues of minor relevance,(gentiles who want to be Jews,gentiles who want to convert,gentiles who want to take on Mizvot,etc)But this certainly is not the central argument.
We have been called to enhance the Traditional Jewish/Messianic Jewish dialogue.To get caught up in the gentile question ..is to be diverted from a G-d sent task that few have been called to!
This second point remains unfulfilled because Jewish leaders will probably stand aghast at the idea of gentiles calling themselves Jews,and taking aboard all that has (I believe) been directed to the Jewish people to grant them the possibility of staying distinctive,different from the rest.
3.A living alive observance encouraged by the messianic movement was supposed to be the spark to encourage all types of Jews to deeper observance...but how is this encouragement in observance and allegance to the rabbinical authority supposed to come from gentiles.It wouldn't ring true..It doesn't make sense to me.
4.We shouldn't overlook the responsability we have to small children and how their identity is shaped.Should gentiles really be encouraged to bring their children to synagogues,call themselves Jews,and teach their kids that they are Jews as well!What if a traditional jewish person oneday opens the eyes of these same children to the fact that some sort of lineage is required to be called a JEW(or conversion to Judaism)..wouldn't we have wounded them in the core of their identity .It may be a wound from which they may never recover.This one point above all the rest shocks me into the responsibility we have when we invite people to our messianic communities.The being cut off,the hurt,the strange terminology and unfortunately the untruthfulness!
Looking back how did we get here??
Do we need to be alarmed??
I would say we need to be VERY alarmed!
NOT because of all the things above,but because we need to take drastic action if we are to fulfil our calling to bring JEWS into an authentic JEWISH space with other JEWS.I'm not afraid to say that's where I stand,it's where I must go!PseudoJewish/chrisian meetings were not the dream for me.The Baptists do this better than us!
Our calling must remain clear!
How?
1.Is it not possible to require that a congregation be 80% Jewish otherwise it's disbanded?
2.Is it not possible to publicise that the synagogues are primary for Jewish people to worship together?
3.Is it possible to refrain from re-inventing the wheel.Although for Messianics all types of people can call themselves Jewish,can't we from now on use the term as 99.9% of the world and 100% of the Jewish world understands it? (some sort of Jewish lineage that's tracable)
If we don't change things drastically ...we could become the remanant laughing stock!
As for the conversion question..it's not the conversion into something that is so pertinant but rather the conversion FROM WHAT...christianity?? Does this mean it was not rich enough..?
I hope I didn't offend anyone..it's the way I feel, because I am dearly tied to my people,and imagine their hurt in all of this.
Let's also rest assured that the ruach Hakodesh will blow through the movement to "open our eyes" to see what we must do in order to do an about turn...Let's pray for an awful amount of courage!
In response to Robert, in regard to conversion. I have always asked who is converting to what? Jewish people who accept Yeshua have not converted to any other religion but have accepted their own Messiah Yeshua. I would say that it is still the Gentiles who are really converting from paganism and not having any relationship with G-d to accepting the G-d of Israel through Yeshua and hence as unnatural branches being grafted into the commonwealth of Israel. Before it was a formal conversion process but with Yeshua, it's still through Israel's Messiah and hence Israel but Gentiles don't have to be Jews. However, I believe that mitvoht ie. commandment keeping is also required of Gentile believers which is not legalistic as is oft thought and taught.
I am in agreement with you that there are more Gentiles than Jews in Messianic congregations. I discussed this with Marty Waldman many years ago and he stated that the proportion was always something in the order of 10:1 Gentiles to Jews. He stated that iff that ratio of Gentiles to Jews was greater he might consider quiting being a congregation leader. It's almost like that verse that ten of the nations shall cling to thee. I forget which book in Tenach it came from but it seems to foreshadow that ratio. Also, we need to compare the Land, Israel and what is happening there with the USA, Canada etc, (i.e the Golah as Mark Kinzer puts it). In Israel, you don't have this same situation where there are 80-90% Gentiles in the congregations. In fact, you will probably find the reverse with even smaller number of Gentiles if any unless they are visiting Eretz Israel. Jewish evangelism is more effective in Israel than in the USA due to multifactorial situations. I don't know if the situation will ever change here but I think it's great that there are growing number of Gentile believers who are supporting Israel and repudiating supersessionism. They are discovering the breadth and depth of the roots of our common faith in Yeshua and two branches, a Jewish branch and a Gentile branch. This was better termed bilateral ecclesiology by Mark Kinzer. Perhaps, in the Spirit they will fulfull Romans 15:27 and abundantly share in their material things in grateful exchange for what they have obtained in the spiritual things from their Jewish brothers. And as Rav Shaul further points out in II Corinthinans that the plentifulness of those who have makes up for the lack of the saints in Jerusalem so that there is no inequality.
However, I believe that in a Jewish environment as in Israel, with nationaly Shabbat observance, etc, it is easier to follow Jewish tradition and live a Torah observant life than abroad. So a return to the L-rd, return to the Land and return to Torah seem to all hold together better in Israel with less complicating factors. That's kind of how I see it in an abbreviated form.
Corneliusm:
What you have said really resonates with me.
Being Jewish myself, some of my best friends are gentile believers who are members of my congregation.
For the most part, I could not imagine them in a Church context, as they are thoroughly ingrained in the Congregation and congregational life.
However, they do not say they are Jews, they say that they are living amongst the Jewish people. In my experience, more gentiles are making this expression, versus saying that they are Jewish or a "Spiritual Jew". There is something wonderful about creating Jewish space, and having people of the nations say that God has called them to live among us in it. (Keep in mind, my home congregation is about 50-50, not the 10-90 I have heard about)
I also wholeheartedly that we need to have true worship and praise, which is a heart issue. I believe that as people are open to let God speak to them, and transparent with their leadership and with each other, we will be able to see God do more in our midst.
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