Monday, March 26, 2007

Week Four - Part Two - Robert's Questions about Liturgical Prayer

Robert said this:

In session 2.1, you beautifully described “The Sacrifice of Prayer and Praise: The Continuing Priestly Privilege and Responsibility of Israel toward a Messianic Jewish Understanding of Prayer.” What seems to be the hold up in our movement towards this type of prayer especially because we participate in hastening the consummation of all things? In my experience in MJ, there has never been such an emphasis on Siddur prayers as you have placed upon it in this class. I have a great desire to learn the Siddur prayers more in depth with much Kavvana, has anyone in our movement expressed a desire to form an interactive daily prayer web-site? Maybe this can be a step towards your dream of daily MJ minyan's?


Robert,

What a sensitive and appropriate question!

You ask, for the reasons for “the hold up in our movement towards this type of prayer especially because we participate in hastening the consummation of all things?” The reasons are many.

Way back about 1990, I devised what I term “The Law of Obstructive Leadership,” which helps to address your question. Here is what I said at that time. Sadly, it is still as relevant today as then.

The Law of Obstructive Leadership states

“The greatest obstacles to liturgical renewal are the ignorance, fear, pride, prejudice and negative experiences of decision-makers. The next greatest obstacle is lack of motivation.”


It is not by accident that ignorance appears first in my list of factors. Ignorance about things liturgical is widespread in the Messianic Jewish community, among leaders as well as among laity. However, it is more of a problem for leaders, whether professional or lay, because most leaders resist being put into a position where their ignorance becomes apparent. Frankly, most congregations create an atmosphere where it's not "safe" for a leader to say "I don't know."

Therefore, ignorance among decision-makers presents a two-fold problem
1. Leaders/decision-makers have inadequate experience and knowledge to appreciate the value of liturgical renewal, leading to a tendency to avoidance or deprecation.
2. Even should they favor liturgical renewal, they don't know how to implement it.


Some decision leaders fear exposure of their own ignorance, while others simply fear change of any kind as being potentially erosive of their power and safety. Since not many of us came from meaningfully observant homes, it should come as no surprise to know that prejudice against liturgy is widespread in our movement. This prejudice against liturgy is further exacerbated by the input many of us have received in the wider church world (and the legacy of anti-Judaism and anti-rabbinism mixed together with the assumptions of dispensationalism, which I mentioned in my “Seeds, Weeds . . .” paper).

(In addition) most of us only have church experience in the "free-church [baptistic] tradition." In many cases, we've internalized prideful and negative attitudes toward liturgy from people who themselves were nurtured in environments which equated "liturgical" with "liberal" and "dead." Therefore, it is no wonder that we are not objective on the subject.

At all times it is helpful to remember that not all repetition is vain repetition. If liturgy is well-used, it can be most beneficial to community life.

Opinion leaders don't like to appear ignorant. Their pride gets in the way of admitting their deficiency in experience and knowledge, and as a defense mechanism, often they simply declare liturgy to be at best of questionable usefulness.

There aren't many of us who can point to their backgrounds as places where we came to know, love, and reverence liturgy. Rather, especially for those of us who encountered liturgy at a young age, perhaps in Hebrew school, liturgy has a negative connotation because of meaninglessness, authoritarian-based rote learning, and ample dosages of the "guilt treatment" with which we encountered it in our youth. Others of us, grafted in to the Messianic movement from, say, Roman Catholic upbringings, may also have only negative memories of liturgy.

In point of fact, the Bible itself is very liturgical and there's not a hint there that liturgy is a short-cut to spiritual deadness.

Motivation for change will remain low until congregational leaders and decision-makers see the negative effect adhering to other service models is having upon the impact and cohesion of the Messianic community.

Additionally, only as leaders come to understand our role to be a sign, demonstration and catalyst for God’s consummating purposes for Israel, and as we see how a lack of a “crunchy” Messianic Judaism is greasing the skids for assimilation and intermarriage, and as leaders come to see that assmililation is truly wrong, only then will the motivation change. For now, many remain unmotivated for reasons stated here, and more. Only when people see what is being lost, and own up to their own prides, prejudices and fears, will change take place.

As we develop richly liturgical congregations that are growing, healthy, and full of heart-felt worship, other leaders in the movement may be motivated to get on board.


Another principle I have been teaching since about 1990, related to your excellent question, is the Prime Directive for Liturgical Renewal.


The Prime Directive For Liturgical Renewal

In any change program, there must be a system of priorities. In some congregations, liturgical renewal just won't be possible until an underlying climate of resistance is recognized, identified, and dealt with. In others, even should liturgical renewal be recognized as desirable, an entrenched style of doing things will need to be lovingly, respectfully, and gradually modified as the process occurs. Because each context is unique, one cannot prescribe the same change process for all situations. However, certain generalizations can be made.

One of these is what is termed "The Prime Directive for Liturgical Renewal." It has this august title because it is a factor which cannot be omitted if a congregation is to move in the direction of more thoroughgoing contextualization.

This is the Prime Directive for Liturgical Renewal:

“The better people understand the liturgy, the better they’ll like it. Therefore, each congregation must have an ongoing program to increase liturgical literacy, beginning with the leaders and opinion leaders of congregations.”


Liturgical literacy is not the same as being fluent in Hebrew. You don’t have to be able to carry on a conversation in Hebrew with a Tel Aviv cab-driver in order to be liturgically literate.

By liturgical literacy is meant a combination of four factors in varying proportions. Those factors are [1] ability to read Hebrew orthography; [2] some understanding of what is read; [3] sufficient understanding of the function and history of the liturgical unit to facilitate intelligently using it for prayer; [4] ability to perform liturgically within the range of Jewish communal acceptability.

If the leaders and opinion leaders of the congregation are not behind the program of liturgical renewal, it will die—although there may be difficulty in identifying the cause of death. Because of issues discussed under the Obstructive Leadership Principle, leaders and opinion leaders may passively, even if not actively, resist these changes. Conversely, when leaders and opinion leaders become knowledgeable and enthusiastic supporters of the program. the success of the program is almost guaranteed.

Such a program of liturgical literacy should be both continual and cyclical. Through comments made during services, through well-managed in-service instruction, and through these targeted classes, the program of liturgical renewal will become cumulatively effective, and the level of congregational liturgical literacy will rise, but slowly.

It is important to bear in mind that trying to institute broad change too quickly inevitably results in backlash, and may create destructive turmoil. One needs to become acquainted with paradigm shift theory. I strongly recommend two books. The more recent is “Change is Like a Slinky,” by Hans Finzel, who was a protégé of one of my mentors, Bobby Clinton. This book will teach you all you need to know to institute a program of congregational change, and spare you oceans of grief. Another older book which I believe is now available through Wipf and Stock Publishers is “The Change Agent,” by Lyle Schaller. It is provides a good foundation and would work well in conjunction with Finzel’s book.

When instituting such classes and therefore such change in your congregation, at first, class rosters should be made up of hand-picked students whose chances of success and likelihood of positively advertising the benefits of the course are assured.

Perhaps the most challenging and crucial of the courses of instruction will be liturgical Hebrew. Again, one must strive for limited, defined and achievable goals, and as these are achieved in the lives of hand-picked pioneers, the atmosphere and expectation of the congregation will change, and more people will no doubt sign on as well.


Finally, returning to your question, I don’t think an interactive prayer website is in order, although I will be launching my own far-reaching website dealing with a broad range of Messianic Jewish issues soon. It will be called Rabbenu.org and will help me to provide a wide range of services to people like you and congregations like yours, even apart from my roles in conjunction with MJTI, etc. In the future I also plan to offer DVD’s and of course printed materials serving the Messianic Jewish vision and hastening the consummation of all things.

The best way to learn to pray is to pray of course, but we all also need mentoring. I would be happy to meet with you at some sort of regular interval to coach you in these matters. I also have done workshops on liturgical prayer for Messianic Congregations, and perhaps could do something for you and your lay leaders.

You also asked,

“Since we know that Yeshua is the Messiah, the One Man Israel, who in Himself perfectly embodies all that Israel was meant to be and to do. Where do we find Yeshua using a rabbinical pattern of prayer, such as found in Acts 3:1 where it is very evident or do we assume that Yeshua prayed in this manner?”


Actually, this is something we can very strongly infer from a number of factors.

First, it is obvious that Yeshua was brought up an observant Jew in a pious household. We see this in how his family conducts itself during his infancy and childhood, and also through seeing what an exemplary pious Jew was Ya’akov/James his brother! From this alone it is no far reach to infer that Yeshua too was brought up a pious Jew, and would have prayed as Jews do.

In addition, we read in Luke 4:16 the familiar passage, “Now when he went to Natzeret, where he had been brought up, on Shabbat he went to the synagogue as usual. He stood up to read.” Of course he would have read the Torah and Haftarah in Hebrew, which would not have been the common tongue of the people, who probably spoke Koine Greek in the streets. So he would have known how to read the Torah/Haftarah in Hebrew because he was religiously trained. In addition, we read there that “he went to the synagogue as usual.” Would he not have stood out as rebel and trouble-maker all those years if he was the only young man in Natzeret who went to synagogue but didn’t pray with the congregation? Remember, in those days, people did NOT go to synagogue to hear a sermon, or to do Davidic Dancing. Instead, they went to pray together and learn together. Yeshua went to synagogue as a matter of personal custom, and it is certain that the One whose life was characterized as “ . . .Yeshua grew both in wisdom and in stature, gaining favor both with other people and with God” (Lk 2:52), and who could say to his Jewish contemporaries, “Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?” (John 8:46), was not a person who went to synagogue week after week but avoided praying the prayers of the people—yes, rabbinic prayers.

Finally, Yeshua teaches in Matthew 11:25: “And when you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him; so that your Father in heaven may also forgive your offenses." The assumption here is that his disciples will be standing when they pray. Why? Because they prayed the Amidah—the standing prayer!

To anyone who would challenge if Yeshua prayed Jewish liturgical prayer, I would ask: “Where is your evidence for this contention?” There is none! But there is much evidence for what I have presented here.

There is more to discuss on these issues. But let’s stop here for today.

11 comments:

Paul Kugelman Jr said...

Paul responds:

These comments point to a very real vacuum within our movement: the scarcity of an indiginous generational knowledge base. Personally I am aware of very few leaders in this movement who came with any deep understanding of Tradition. Most who care for it and who endeavor to adhere are self taught, which can be fraught with its own inherent dangers no matter how well intentioned or carefully done - this is based on my own experience. Robert's cited statements and R. Dauermann's response give me relief in that this gap is beginning to be properly filled.

Robert said...

Robert -

You are right R. Stuart, there was (a few years ago) hesitancy in our community when I increased more liturgy. It was specifically a big deal among those who were not raised in Jewish style worship(as I was raised), and this caused one of many past splits in our community. Other splits were due to all the garbage/mishugas of the One Law/Ephramite/Name people who really give MJ a horrific stench. As a congregational leader, I came to a place where I asked myself what makes MJ a Judaism and I realized it was Jewish people doing Jewish things. After a while the “stubborn” left and we experienced a new level of liturgy where many felt the presence of G-d.I know for sure that our Congregation is no where near as liturgical as yours (R. Stuart) but each year it seems to be able to incorporate a little more. I am working on integrating more liturgy in the future, including a Rosh Chodesh service, but I am in the process of learning and preparing in order to do it correctly.

To R. Stuart
I don’t know if you would approve of this for this posting, but I would be curious to ask those taking this class (to share)the exact liturgy they do on Shabbat. I confess (in advance), I would probably be one of the lighter liturgical congregations, but none the less I am thankful for our progress. How liturgical we will get, I don’t know, but at least our congregation more Jewish centered than it was 3-4 years ago.


R. Stuart said, “At all times it is helpful to remember that not all repetition is vain repetition. If liturgy is well-used, it can be most beneficial to community life.” I found this very parallel to Kugel’s section called “The Miskan.” He spoke of how the miskan constituted a space, a possibility, and so does halakhah. Even though the halakhah seems modest in comparison to the miskan, the repetition of prayers opens space for the presence of G-d and it is within the most trivial actions of life that we can direct our thoughts upward.

R. Stuart -
I will take you up on your offer to meet on a regular interval, although my lay leaders are probably not ready until I am prepared and ready to take them to the next level.

Regarding my second question, thank you for the clarification and as you said all the evidence points towards a Yeshua who was acquainted and equipped in the ways of his people.

Derek Leman said...

Rabbi:

I wanted to comment, as a Messianic congregational leader, on the hold-up in liturgical renewal. I won't comment for the movement, but relate my experience:

1. I started Tikvat David six years ago. I was a Christian dispensationalist. I had not yet moved into the paradigm of Jewish space. I knew next to nothing -- only knew the melody for the Shema.

2. At first, listening to cantorial CD's and trying to learn some liturgy to add to our service was window dressing to me. I felt that I could impress people if I memorized a melody for the Kaddish (thought that was hard -- worked on it in my car for weeks).

3. I fell in love with the Siddur only after experiencing my first Minyan at a UMJC conference about 3 years ago. By the way, I've since been a few times to an Orthodox minyan and it was boring. UMJC leaders, perhaps like some Hasidim, put more spirit into it.

4. I loved the Siddur but it is a big learning curve. Meanwhile I've been on other learning curves. I would say I am just now coming into my own with the Siddur, though I'm far behind Rabbi D and other UMJC leaders (but give me ten more years).

5. I felt all along that I needed a Jewish member in my congregation who had the Torah and canting skills. That has never happened. We also need a talented percussionist (anybody want to send us one?).

6. I also felt it would be great if any other Messianic leader here knew more than me and could teach me. Alas, MJ is still caught up in Christianity with Jewish window dressing. I am, sadly, the most Jewish-knowledgeable leader here (and I am not born Jewish!).

7. Guys like me, and I'm sure there are some MJ leaders who feel as I do, we need help, mentoring. There are many who don't care to learn, but some, like me want to be fluent in Siddur-ese. I wonder if I will ever know all the melodies and chants for the entire Shakharit.

8. It would be great to have a CD of the whole Shakharit.

Derek

Derek Leman said...

Robert:

Our service looks like this:
Opening Song
Mah Tovu
Mi Kamocha
Welcome
Half Kaddish
Bar’chu
Shema
1 Cor. 8:4-6
Musical Praise
Amidah
Birkhat Cohanim
Musical Sim Shalom
Musical Worship
Blessing of Children
Torah Liturgy
Zohar Vayakel
Torah Removal
Call to Reader
Torah Reading
D’rash
Etz Chaim
Sermon
Alenu
Bless Oneg
Closing Song

Derek

Paul Kugelman Jr said...

On Liturgy:

I have to confess that I am about to assume the leadership of a small congregation in Fredericksburg. I have met with the congregation as a whole and the leadership of the congregation regarding, among other things, liturgy. It will be a big shift for them but they seem to be more than willing to go that direction.

With that, here is the proposed order of service at present:

Ma Toe Voo
Musical Worship - Pesuki D'Zimra
Showcain Odd
Barchoo
Blessing of Messiah
Shema
Amidah (only the first three parts)
Ayn Kamocha
Va Heen Bean So'ah Ha'Ahron
Call to the Torah/Blessings
Haforah
B'rit Chadashah
(Bless the kids before Shabbat school)
Message
Aaronic Benediction

It is my hopes to fill this out more as time goes on. And I have to confess it is a big leap from where they are now. But, as I had explained to the congregation earlier, I am just not equipped to run the service as it is run now. Surprisingly, they are very excited about it.

JOHN said...

Hi there Guys! I must apologise for not getting my replies to your comments (which were replies to Rabbi Stuart's comments)off to you sooner.I was in Lyon,France ferrying Rabbi's and Cardianal's to a interconfessional meeting on unity.The Rabbi's trusted the Cardinals so much(who had taken incredible lengths to insure Kashrut,no milk with meat/utensils/etc)that these Orthodox declared their kitchen"Kosher".All prayers were in Hebrew,and there was no mention of Yeshua..which in my view was the CORRECT posture.... and there was "TRUST".Must be the breeze of the ruach Hakodesh in all of this!!The sight of ten Othodox Rabbi's embracing their Christian "counterparts" brought tears to my eyes...
So now on to questions:I'm going to post all my replies under this page so that my classmates won't have to turn back to each section.

As to Paul's question on how to hope to attain integrity with the Jewish community without Halakhah,and R.Staurt's reply.

Something that R.Staurt mentioned struck me."..don't you feel the "Angst" of being apart from other Jewish believers.We know that there is a remarkable new interest in all that is halakhic in traditional and even reform movements..should this not touch us as well..should we not learn from it..are we willing to learn from it?
It also struck me ,that as Kugel said,Jewish observance and Halakhah is seen as "over there"..with the long coats and the beards and Israel..Are we in reality looking at traditional Jewish movements through the lens of "over there".Something other,something that we do not not believe is G-d's specific calling for us,(priests of a holy nation),and thus sinful to neglect!
It would seem that the Rabbinical assembly is something essential in the Messianic movement.First, for education..because aren't all these questions about halakhah really reworking the question of how important (if at all!) is oral Torah/rabbinics/halakhah to Yeshua followers.
Can you imagine explaining halakhot-le-moshe-mi-Sinai to a Messianic congregation..all of the oral Torah was revealed!"With the abolition of Torah is it's founding!"(Resh lakish)
Are we called to do this..I think not!
I go along with M.Kinzer that the Yeshua of the Besorot did endorse the authority and traditions of the pharisees.Of course,any Halakhic tradition must be tempered by Hosea 6:6 "Mercy not sacrifice".
I also go along with the idea that we must accept the rabbinical authority(Traditional Jewish) stemming form that famous passage about " how the Pharisees sit in Moshe's seat,etc".
I would add,that we CAN disregard halakhah if it hints at a rejection of Yeshua/as we can reject anything in the oral tradition that pulls us in this direction.This is because we are "called" to see it all through a different lens.
For me, the role of the rabbinical assembly will be central to sorting out"sticky issues" and to be a clear indication to those endorsing the movement, of the direction we wish to go.We could even expect joint co-operation with tradition Rabbi's in the future as to the exact interpretation of some Mitzvat,etc..(Hoping,anyway!!)
In this way some of the "Angst" of living out our Jewish lives in isolation would have been healed

JOHN said...

This is a reply to R.Staurt's question on how the "lived spiritual experience of people who have rejected Yeshua,can ring so true to us:(Heschel,Rabbi Steinsaltz;etc).It's also a reply to Paul and Robert's replies on this matter,who stated so eloquently,how they found "mercy" to be central to this issue and expeienced "holiness with the Chabad.
It would appear to me that Mr Hazakim and the JFJ article revolve around the question of whether it's possible to be saved without knowing Yeshua..
It helps if we see this separately from the question of "relationship with G-D".
As for "relationship" with G-D:
I like to see this as a type growth.
1.In all cultures we can witness Man's turning towards something other..different religions,beliefs,etc!
It's the starting block.
2.The next level or "fullness" I have to believe comes from knowing the G-d of Abraham,Isacc and Jacod..the great HaShem".
3.Fuller experience must come from knowing the G-d of Abraham.Issac and Jacob AND his people and learning from them and their INTERPRETATIONS of how to live holy lives before him.
4.Even greater knowledge of G-D comes through Yeshua and recognising him as G-D's son.This would allow us to interpret passages such as :Yochanan5:22,in fact all of Yochanan 5-6:
1.Only those who bear witness to me will have eternal life..
2...the Son judges those who do not honour me..
3.whoever fails to honour the Son ,fails to honour the Father..
Yeshua is not (I believe) saying that pious Jews are condemmed..but rather to have MORE life, belief in Yeshua is necessary.
4."If you believed in Moshe..you would believe in me..Moshe will condem you,the very one you have counted on.." Does this passage fly in the face of Kinzer's book and the argument about Yeshua rejection really being Faithfullness to the G-D of Abraham,Issac and Jacob? Not if we regard condemnation as a refusal to move to a richer level of knowing G-D.
We don't need to enter into the "who is more saved than other's debate".What should inform our thinking,is CLEAR AND PRESENT GODLINESS" recognised within the Jewish community,that,whilst choosing to ignore Messiah,still speaks of G-D's involvment in the irrevocable covenant.
This obvious ongoing relationship with the Jewish people, that touches so many of our spiritual chords,rings so true for us, seems to me the clearest evidence of this irrevocable covenant in the NOW that is so quickly overlooked and de-valued because of Yeshua Ignorance.
Are we going to encourage Messianic believers in our congregations to delve fully into Jewish spiritual works/books/spiritual guidance...there's the real test of how far we are "us" and "them" on a ground roots level

JOHN said...

This is now a reply to Robert's question on liturgical prayer and Paul and Robert's and Derek's replies.
Looking back, have you ever thought "how on earth did we get here?"
We started out wanting to proclaim belief in Yeshua as compatible with Jewish lifestyle and Jewish religious worship...and we've ended up divorced from the Oral tradition,divorced from halakhah,divorced from the Rabbi's authority and place in our lives,divorced from the Jewish community ,divorced from the siddur and divorced from Jewish liturgical life and worship styles!!
Incredible!
That's why,I believe,brute paradigm shifts(such as in Kinzer's book)are pretty much radical surgery or the consequences will be as R staurt describes on the video.."the possibility of a movement that will falter within the next 12-20 years.."
How did we get "here".Isn't our notion of liturgy "lifted" directly from the idea of "Worship services" that we are so used to in the Evangelical circle?
Liturgy was dead(Too Catholic!!)/worship was seen as "living".Liturgy was repetative/Worship was "spirit-filled".Liturgy was structured/worship involved "tongues,prophesy,healing.
Liturgy was "old-fashioned/worship was "new"
Liturgy was for the "old guard"/ worship is for the Youth, the new generation.
A wedge has been driven between traditional and messianic services that has touched the most basic instincts in prayer...the structure of prayer and the music that it's sung to.
Our culture is obsessed with the "new" with keeping "up".I've been to quite a few Messianic services in Europe that were world's apart from what goes on in the synagogue!!
Is this sinful??I believe it is ..as it forces the youth to decide between the New and the Old sytle.Forces people to chose between and easier style and one which may take more commitment to reap results.Forces a never ending stream of new prayers, new songs that have no continuity with the past ones.Forces assimilation among Jewish believers who come to Messianic synagogues to become "pentacostalists!" And most of all , interupts the continuity of Jewish worship between traditions.
I believe there's been a bowing to the idea of being "hype""trendy" in worship that frowns severely on the Siddur and structured prayer.
Aren't we entrusted in teaching our next generation of Messianc believers to delve fully into liturgical prayer and to seek it out earnestly in times of pain when thoughts/songs/meditation becomes almost impossible.
A very difficult issue..if we don't "keep up with the what others are doing, we might not have any congregation left..no young people.."
But is this what we are called to do? Aren't we doing this course because we felt we were called to change something that has gone adrift..
G-D would not put a calling in our hearts if there was no NEED,if it was redundant.
1.we need to adopt the "non-consumer" approach of Kugel.Teach congregations that it's not what they get out of it that counts...but honesty in their Worship..in all styles"
2.There is a calling to remain fathful to liturgical styles that are consistant with traditional judaism
3.we must(of course) be flexible..but not to the point of turning liturgy into a pale replica of an evangelical praise party!
4.Hebrew IS essential(I believe) because as Kugel says "Hebrew thoughts(prayers) occur in the Hebrew language" ...and Jewish people will not feel out of place in our services.
ACID TEST: Would rabbi's from different traditional Jewish circles(especially those who proclaim the necessity of an observant Jewish lifestyle) feel at ease and identify with our services?

JOHN said...

Still me folks!!
A short note to Derek:You prayed for a cantor..and he comes to me!!??
G-D's ways are not our ways..
Just as I was in the internet Café preparing these replies, a young guy saw the Kugel book and the spiritual paths book.Turn's out he also believes in Yeshua. He's also VERY involved in the liturgical side of things in the synagogue..want's to come and help us get started!!
What a gift G-D has blessed us with!

JOHN said...

I read most of the comments on this question on liturgy...and what makes them so important is thaT they are what happens in the "real" situation of congregational worship,praise and petition.For all your struggles and perhaps faults...you have actually managed to lead a people into G-D's presence.So ,from my angle,I'd say not to be too hard on yourselves.
I usually go down to the local synagogue on Saturday's..it's great but "jet speed"....
What of those Messianic siddurs.Has any one tried following them? Came across a good one from chosen people ministries on the net.We tried it a few weeks ago with someone who knew all the chants...beautiful, but completely structured.A real paridgm shift in spiritual practice!Any views? And what about the music side of things.Usually synagogue organ chant or modernish songs.I must say some of the melodies from steve mcConnell aren't bad,and it's for the most part lifted from the traditional sidur.Then there is a CD by Jeremiah Greenburg..the whole Sacharit in traditional chant with transliterated Hebrew text...
Can anyone spare a few Jewish guys in the heart of Switzerland any advice on starting up a Friday and Saturday Shabbat service and the minyan, so that we're spared the "oceans of grief" that Stuart talks about? We can bet being about twenty at the most!!

Unknown said...

In response to R. Stuart’s definition of Holiness:

“Holiness is presenting oneself as a living sacrifice to Hashem in all ways always”

My ingrained definition of Holiness has always been the level of separation we have TO God and AWAY from the world. When I look at your definition R. Stuart I can relate to the offering part, the living sacrifice. We say, “We want to be Holy, we want to be Holy.” And what we are really saying to God is, please burn us up. God did this to Aaron’s sons when they brought Him strange fire; He consumed them. So when we purpose in our hearts to be Holy, we really are setting ourselves up to be radically changed. Most people don’t actually want this, they just want to be Holy because everyone else wants to be Holy, and the standard norm is to want to be Holy. But real holiness IS attainable through God’s grace, but it certainly is not easy, and it certainly requires our heartfelt and consistent decision.

What did Paul say in Romans Ch. 12, “Therefore I urge you brothers in view of God’s mercy to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God – this is your spiritual (or reasonable) act of worship.” We say that we want to do this, but Paul continues his exhortation by saying, “Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is – His good, pleasing and perfect will.” - So on the one hand we need to purpose in our hearts to be Holy (whatever definition of it we may have), while at the same time resisting the way the world does things.

So again I would define holiness as
Drawing near to God, and letting Him consume you (change, mold, etc.) in the same proportion that you remove yourself from the way of the world.